Public Meeting - Cleat Hill - Thursday 12 December 2024, 6:45pm

Public Meeting - Cleat Hill
Thursday, 12th December 2024 at 6:45pm

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Laura Church Chief Executive
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire
Steve Wilson EPG
Jim Davies, Beds Fire
Sarah Stevens
Laura Church Chief Executive
Craig Austin
Jim Davies, Beds Fire
Sarah Stevens
Craig Austin
Jim Davies, Beds Fire
Steve Wilson EPG
Jim Davies, Beds Fire
Craig Austin
Jim Davies, Beds Fire
Craig Austin
Steve Wilson EPG
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Craig Austin
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Steve Wilson EPG
Sarah Stevens
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Sarah Stevens
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Sarah Stevens
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Laura Church Chief Executive
Craig Austin
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Craig Austin
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Craig Austin
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Craig Austin
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Craig Austin
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Steve Wilson EPG
Craig Austin
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Laura Church Chief Executive
Steve Wilson EPG
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Sarah Stevens
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Sarah Stevens
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Craig Austin
Laura Church Chief Executive
Mayor Tom Wootton
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Sarah Stevens
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Steve Wilson EPG
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Laura Church Chief Executive
Craig Austin
Sarah Stevens
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
Laura Church Chief Executive
Laura Church Chief Executive
Sarah Stevens
Laura Church Chief Executive
Mayor Tom Wootton
Laura Church Chief Executive
Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police
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starting meetings too early and I'll get in trouble again if I start them too late.

Thank you for a sort of all coming out again.

I'd say it's good to see you because the chief and I will do the welcomes because we do have an agenda

and we do have our normal pack to work through and all the people to do.

I thought getting towards the end, the end game, the better news we might hear tonight,

everyone would be happy and cheerful, but it doesn't feel that way.

It feels like the end of a very long journey.

And bearing in mind what happened this afternoon at the Woodland burial site where the Reverend

Vicar, the vicar of Ravenston, Reverend Tim, you know, conducted a burial, they've got

to keep that in mind because this is really serious and it's the end game of a very long

process.

So I thought everybody, you know, I thought things would be different but I just feel

very, you know, we've got to get this done.

And I said the Councillor would be with you all the step of the way, that we'd be your

trade union, we'd fight for you, we'd be here, and hopefully the Chief won't say anything

to disprove that or put me right, which she often does.

So I'm pleased that we can gather here today and I'm pleased that we've shifted the other

committee meetings out and all the rest of it.

So, Chief, have I said anything out of order?

And you're going to run through, because I know you like to do the questions and answers

and keep everybody in order.

But I'll hand the meeting over.

But thank you very much for gathering again.

And you know, we're with you.

And we're going to be with you every step of this way.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

So like we've had for other meetings, we have got representatives from the local resilience

forum available to answer questions and we'll be talking to you tonight.

So we've got Jim Davis from the fire service, Catherine Rivers from the police service,

Steve Wilson who we introduced to you online last week and we've got other members of the

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:02:18

So tonight we're going to be talking about what Steve has been seeing on the site and

give you some more information about that, give you a bit more information on the risk

assessments and the quality assurance process, talk about how we're dealing with some of

the extra work that we talked about last time of the sealing of ducts, and then Craig will

run through a road map and then we'll move into questions and answers.

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:02:44

So I'm going to hand over to Steve.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire - 0:02:52

Good evening, everybody.

It's good to see you face to face rather than on Zoom.

And what I want to do is just run through what I've done since or what the team's been

and what I've been doing since we had that last Zoom meeting last week.

Is there going to be a slide?

Because the printing is in black and white, there's a...

It's not actually, it's in the way that you have it.

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:03:25

Oh, it is in... ah, okay, right. Wrong information.

So, as part of the quality assurance process for me to review the work that's been done,

we went to the site last week and we conducted our own monitoring just for us to be sure

that the monitoring that's being done by BGS and MRSL is giving us the right answer.

It's not misleading us.

And again, it's not because there's any doubt about their data.

It's just good practice to do that.

And also, in particular, what we were doing, we were using a different instrument, and

that just gives you a cross -check to make sure that there's nothing interfering with

instruments or anything like that.

So we went round the garden of number seven and we went up and down Wagstaff Close and

I forgot the name of the other road, Glenrose Avenue, thank you.

So what we were doing, we were monitoring very close to the surface, which is a similar

thing to what MRSL and the BGS have been doing. So we're monitoring methane very close to

the ground to see if there are any emissions out of the ground. And what you can see on

that plan is that everywhere where there are green dotted lines, that shows that we were

just measuring methane at normal background levels. So if you go anywhere in the country,

you'll pick up methane between 2 .1 parts per million

and 4 .5 parts per million in the atmosphere.

Depends if you're closer to sort of a landfill site,

you might get a little bit higher in the air.

There are all sorts of things

that can give you slightly elevated levels,

but their background levels, their normal levels,

and everywhere it was 2 .1, 2 .2 parts per million,

except where the borehole is.

So there is a very local area around the top of the borehole

where if you put the instrument on the ground

you do pick up high concentrations of methane.

But what is happening is it's not a constant.

So what happens is it will be at background levels,

it will rise up over 20 or 30 seconds to a peak

and then drop back down again.

and it just keeps doing that pulsating.

And what that means is, or what that indicates to me is that there are bubbles of methane in the ground

that are coalescing, there are lots of little bubbles that are just trapped there from when it was leaking

and they coalesce, they sort of join together slowly into a big bubble and then that can force its way upwards.

And then you wait a bit and then the next one does it.

But when you move away from the borehole, that gets less and less.

So we did it on four different directions from the borehole.

As you move away, once you get to five metres, the maximum concentrations of recording are massively reduced.

It was difficult to do it between five and ten metres because the house is there and there's building materials in the way.

But certainly at 10 metres, which is where some of those green lines are, there aren't

any methane emissions coming out of the ground.

So that's the first thing.

We've checked, we've looked at it, and in Wagstaff and the other road then we've not

picked up anything at all when we've gone up and down.

We've gone around the back of the roads because that, where the edge of the pavement is at

the back of the pavement, that's the most likely place that we would pick up any emissions.

So that's where we've done that surveying and we've not found anything.

So the, going on from that, what we've then done is we've gone through and we've reviewed

and refined the risk assessment process that was already in place.

So the risk assessment process, if anybody has ever, I mean lots of people do this because

if you run a sports club or something like that you have to go through this process to

make sure that your training sessions are safe.

So it is a standard approach to risk assessment.

It's used in a wide range of industrial and environmental fields and as I said, even in

things like coaching, even office safety, it's a standard thing that you would do to

do a risk assessment for health and safety.

And there are two things that you consider.

The first thing is that you consider the consequences of what could happen, which is in this case

is a methane explosion.

And because the consequences of a methane explosion are catastrophic, that puts you

into, you give different scores to the consequences from one which is very low to five which is

very high.

And methane will always, the methane explosion will always be at five.

And then you look at how likely it is.

Now, from all the monitoring data that we've collected, from the information that I've

looked at about sealing up the borehole, how they did that, what has been measured since

then, that leads to the conclusion that actually the risk of gas getting into a house and building

up to an explosive concentration is very unlikely.

What that does is that gives us a minimum score of five, which is the lowest you can

get for a methane concentration.

But that is with, at the moment, that is with those gas monitors in place.

If we do it without the gas monitors in place, it takes us to a score which shows a moderate

risk.

So that's why we've got those gas monitors in place at the moment.

And the next phase of work that we're going to be looking at is to allow you to live in

your homes without those gas monitors.

But this is the quickest way of getting you back into your homes.

So the key considerations...

Sorry, when I looked at this on my computer screen, I thought you'd be able to read it.

One of the key considerations, I think this might have been explained to you in words

before, but what I've done here is try and explain it in pictures to show that it was

a managed and controlled engineering process.

Because I think sometimes when they say, oh yeah, we filled it up with cement, you might

get in your head, oh you just poured some cement down there.

It's not like that.

It was a very controlled operation.

So the first thing that they did was they drilled the borehole to clear it of any blockages

and they did that using proper techniques in a controlled manner.

What they then did, they put this stuff called heavy mud in there.

So the heavy mud is like a liquid.

What that does, it allows the...

Its main purpose is actually to bring the bits up.

So when the drill bit drills through the rock,

you get fragments of rock and the mud is circulated around

to bring all those bits up to the surface

and keep it all lubricated and freely flowing.

But the other thing that the mud does,

they make it heavy enough so that it can counteract the pressure of the gas in the ground.

And what they found was that once they got to 80 metres or 90 metres, around about that

depth, the weight of the mud stopped, was greater than the pressure of the gas in the

ground.

So once you get to that point, what drillers will say is we've got that well under control,

Because you haven't got uncontrolled gas emissions out of that well anymore.

And then that means it's safe and you can effectively properly seal it up permanently.

So they used the heavy mud to get it under control, did that at 80 or 90 metres

and then they went to the bottom of the hole and injected the cement slurry at the bottom.

So you've still got this liquid mud, this drilling mud, in the hole, and then you inject

the cement at the bottom, and what that does, it fills the hole up from the bottom upwards,

and it displaces all that mud.

So again, it's a really effective way of filling that borehole with cement.

So they did that for 20 metres at the bottom of the hole, so the initial plug, and then

and then they left it for 48 hours

to make sure that that had worked.

So that plug on its own has worked.

But then to be absolutely sure and safe,

what they've then done is they've then filled up to,

they've filled the rest of the hole using the same process.

So effectively what happens is because of the weight

of the cement when it's liquid down at that level,

it's pressing, there's a lot of pressure where it's pressing against the sides of the hull.

And it will permeate, if there's fractured rock that's porous, things like that, it will permeate a little bit.

So it provides a very, very effective seal to gas coming up the hull.

And then at the top they've put a steel casing in, which they've cemented in using the same process,

filled the steel casing with it, and then put a cap on it.

The main purpose for that is that with a cap on it they can monitor what's happening, whether

any gas is coming up through the cement and whether that cement is defective in any way.

So that is the process and now you have got a well sealed well and that changes the risk

profile significantly.

So that is the key.

To me that is one of the key elements of the risk assessment.

So the other things that we've considered, so that's an overarching factor that affects

every single property.

And then what the fire service have been doing is they've been doing individual risk assessments

for each house because there are other things that will affect the risk in each house.

So now we've got the well sealed, actually the distance from the borehole does become a factor in what the risk to your house is.

So that's the first factor that we've considered.

We've also looked at if there is now a potential route for gas to reach the boundary after it's been sealed.

And that differential is quite crucial between before sealing and after sealing.

because before it was sealed, there was a really high gas pressure in the ground,

and that can force its way through really small gaps in the ground.

Whereas once we've removed that pressure, then any migration will be by what's called diffusion.

So the effect of the diffusion, if you've got a high concentration here and a low concentration here,

the gas just decides it wants to even itself out over the whole distance.

and that process, it can't force its way through small holes the way the pressure driven migration can.

So that's why we've made that distinction and after it, it makes a big difference to the risk.

So the third thing is has gas ever been detected inside the house, before or after?

The fourth is the floor construction.

The fifth is already identified routes for gas to actually get from the ground into the house.

Because again, the most likely route in my experience of looking at a lot of buildings that have had gas getting into them,

the most likely route is coming up through the, if you've got ducts, plastic pipes,

that a blue water pipe feeds into, is coming up that actual duct, not around the outside of it, coming up the inside of it.

So that's one of the reasons why we've recommended as a belt and braces approach that we seal those water pipes.

And then six is has it got a suitable gas alarm, so the ones that have been installed recently.

And then obviously the seventh, which is really important as well, is who lives there.

because there might be specific needs in terms of...

In the unlikely event that those alarms do go off,

we have got a plan for that.

We can't just stick them in there, you know,

hope for the best.

We have got to have a plan,

even though nobody thinks that they are going to go off.

And so the results of the risk assessments are

that most homes are safe for occupation

with those Blackline G7 alarms installed.

So that takes the risk to acceptable.

There are a few homes that need slightly more enhanced alarm systems.

They are using a very similar system.

It's another Blackline monitor, but we need to be able to monitor inside the voids

underneath some of the properties.

and I think the team have been explaining that to those people that have been affected.

What the risk assessment has also shown is that the gas monitoring around the site, we

can now move from that initial phase of intensive monitoring that's allowed us to understand

much better what the risk is to what we call phase two of monitoring.

So what we're now doing is looking, it's safe here to move back, but we're looking at long -term

to get it all back, you know, so we can remove the alarm eventually.

And what that means is that MRSL can now, they don't have to do the overnight monitoring.

We can reduce that from 7am to 5pm because we know that there won't be a sudden increase

in gas coming out of that well, it will be gradual now.

And so we will get lots of advance warning from all the other monitoring that's in the

site to warn us of that.

We can not, the BGS will now be twice a week.

It's all going to be in the same locations, doing exactly the same as they are doing,

just on a reduced frequency.

But we can do that because when you look at it, you've actually got three lines of defence

We've removed the source of the gas in terms of the pressure driven flow up the well.

But now you've got the monitoring at the top of the well.

It's not just monitoring for the sake of monitoring.

We are reviewing that data and every day it's looked at to see if there is any increase

in trend.

As soon as we see an increase in trend, we will be looking at it and deciding whether we need to respond to that and change things.

So the first line of defence is the borehole monitoring.

The second line is the MRSL and the BGS data that will be reviewed every time they do the readings.

And then the third line of defence is the alarm systems that you have got in the houses.

So you've got a very robust system there that is now in place.

So in terms of quality assurance, the monisters as you all know are now installed.

The protocol's being tested this afternoon, so MRSL actually put...

Was it your house?

Any questions they can answer.

The effect, what happened was we do this all the time, it's not dangerous.

You allow a controlled concentration of methane to come into contact with a sensor.

the sensor alarms, it sends a signal to Canada, Canada then ring up the control room over here,

and then everything that should happen happens.

And what that did, it showed that there was no warning for anybody that this was going to happen,

and that showed that the protocol is in place and it works.

The next thing is that I've written a report that essentially is called an overarching risk assessment report.

But really what it is, it's a story of what has happened so far.

It's a technical story but it explains what has been happened and how that influences the risk.

And it explains why your individual risk assessments are saying what they're saying.

So we've done that. As I said, myself and a colleague did the focus walkover with a gas monitoring instrument.

So we've done that. I think the only thing that I've added that is extra is this sealing of the service ducts.

And it is my recommendation that started that process.

The other technical people on the team are fully in agreement with that.

It is a belt and braces approach.

But as I said, if you are going to get gas inside a house from the ground,

that's the most likely route.

And it is just standard practice.

If you buy any new house that is built on a site with gas in the ground,

it will have those service ducts sealed.

And we do it, even on sites where we don't think there's any particular risk from gas.

We just recommend it as a precaution anyway, even on new new bills

So so that's why we've done that and I think this area gonna explain

Yeah

Jim Davies, Beds Fire - 0:23:02

Okay, so

Hopefully most of you have been sending me some emails and again

Thank you

Cuz I know when I send out these big emails to everybody and then I wait for the replies

Everyone was really quick at coming back last night

So I've gone through all the responses we have and I have sent some emails out this

evening which probably some of you won't have received yet because you were probably heading

here as I was sending them out.

But we've done our best to work with people's requests in terms of their availability and

our aim is to get all of those properties that wish to have the service completed done

over the two days.

And what I would say is this clearly is an activity where you absolutely need to be present.

So whereas last week I was saying please let us get on with the monitors, this is completely

the reverse.

I think this is something that you absolutely need to be there for because clearly it has

a slightly more – yeah, it's a bit more intrusive and actually it's something that

there is a sort of more permanency to what's being undertaken.

But if anybody hasn't replied to my email yet because they haven't had time to or

if they just want to check in terms of what I've sent out while you're here then welcome

to catch us afterwards. But in essence, prestige will be on site tomorrow morning. I think,

Sarah Stevens - 0:24:21

Steve, you're going to be there as well. And I will also, so we will just do our best to

get round to everyone's homes at hopefully a time that is suitable to yourself. But unless

people have got specific questions about what we want to do, I'm just hopeful that we can

just have a couple of busy days and get the job done for you.

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:24:40

So, one of the things that you've been asking for is talking about that road map.

So, I'm going to now hand over to Craig to talk about the road map.

Good evening all.

Craig Austin - 0:24:51

Good to see you all here today and I'll just go through some of the points in terms of

the timeline, that short to medium term.

look at what you don't often refer to as a high level road map.

But also some of the, if you recall, that we have also had is that sort of action plan,

which has got a number of other things, which we still need to determine some of those things,

so we can then, how we approach them, which will be added to the road map.

So it's not that the road map is completely, is complete yet, because there's still some

elements of it that we do need to cover.

So I'll just go through it first.

A lot of the stuff has already been mentioned,

so I won't go into great detail of that,

and I certainly wouldn't be able to do it

to the same level as Steve, as he's just done.

So obviously the risk assessments and recommendations

being completed, and those monitors have been installed,

and the protocol has been tested.

We are focused on the site that's been,

at the focus walk on site as well as being completed.

Risk assessments have been reviewed

as Steve mentioned there.

And then we're looking at in terms of what's known

as the residence packs to be finalized and issued.

And I'm just gonna ask maybe Sarah or Rob

just to maybe give some more indication

of what that is, is that okay?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire - 0:26:25

Sarah Stevens - 0:26:28

So the residence packs will include, I believe, the report that Steve has produced, which

everyone will have, and then depending on individual homeowner's preference, they can

include your risk assessment, but clearly that is entirely down to individuals.

So we won't automatically be sending anything to you, but we will be communicating with

you to ask if you would like to have that.

And then as part of that, we'll then be looking to

offer those kind of individual conversations

that people might want to have once they've had a

chance to read them.

Is there anything else that's going on?

Oh, and also, I did leave in everybody's homes last

week a bit of a paper document, which was some

advice around the monitoring equipment.

There's a couple of bits that I want to revise,

particularly based on the test that we did today,

and some information about how the equipment needs to be

potentially updated in the future.

So I'm going to just update that document a tiny bit,

and then you'll get a revised version of it.

In terms of the way that the alarms work,

the immediate information around the protocol,

none of that needs to be changed.

It's just that we've had some more conversations with Blackline

now about the fact that periodically the equipment may

need to update itself, and I don't want you to suddenly see

a different colored light that we hadn't explained.

But I'm very hopeful it's not going to happen tonight and I will just review that

document again and make sure that that later version goes out.

Thanks very much.

Craig Austin - 0:27:59

So, just want to go a little bit over that really.

Again, different people's different needs, that's why we're saying if you wish to

have a copy of the risk assessment that's been raised by some of you and others are

saying yes, I really want a copy, so it is different for different people.

but we will basically be saying to people,

you have had a risk assessment done

and we believe that it's acceptable and safe

to be able to go,

and the relevant professionals are saying that,

back into your property.

Some of you have asked for certification, haven't you?

And I shouldn't look at you Ian,

every time people have been asking things,

but I know Ian did it.

The report, and I know I wasn't here last time,

but I think Steve raised this last time,

that the report is there.

It's not a certification.

You can't get a certification as such, but what you can do is have that report, which

actually gives you that detail and gives you those assurances.

That's what these documents are there to do, is to give you that assurances that these

have been done and that the systems in place are robust, that they're thorough and that

you're going to be safe.

And that's what it's about really.

That's what these reports and these risk assessments are really there for and all the information

that we will provide.

So I just wanted to clarify that.

obviously open to take any questions. Did you want to add anything to that, Steve, before

we go on?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire - 0:29:20

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:29:23

No, just to say that in terms of verification, I have written a recommendation at the end

of it on how we can approach that. So this is a sort of an interim verification, but

you will need a final one that will eventually say that you're back to as normal as you can

Jim Davies, Beds Fire - 0:29:44

Craig Austin - 0:29:47

So moving on, the cordon, the wonderful cordon that everybody has loved or hated or whatever

for that period of time. I'm going to ask the police and the fire maybe to just go through

about with relation to the cordon and the review of the cordon and the lifting of the

cordon. It shouldn't have stolen up under there, should it?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire - 0:30:05

Craig Austin - 0:30:08

the area.

So many other things that we're going to have to cover over the fendant book or however long it takes

But you know, don't forget we've also always got that

Support line as well and there will be some support there some reassurance there

from fire police local authority

For quite some period of time to enable us

Yeah, sure

So so that will be that will be in place as well. Sorry. Yeah

so particularly as a family member to have WEA to put our Honest

one small part obviously,

the number 7 itself is still subject to investigation,

to officers will be remaining there anyway, a couple of officers certainly for a period

of that investigation however long that needs to take from now on.

And that then, thank you sorry, I'll go over the, yeah sorry, okay, so I'm going, so then,

so that's I think most people will see that, if not all, that that is very good news and

that is making some progress, as well as obviously the monitors and the, and so on that's going

in your own homes, backed up with the information that you've been provided as well, which we'll

be taking and looked at over the next, we will be delivering that and having one -to -one

sessions with people where we're required to be able to go through those over the next

week or two.

And then you've got that ongoing technical meeting to discuss longer term air and soil

gas monitoring, which is what Steve referred to earlier, and those one -to -one meetings

to discuss risk assessments for those who would like more detail.

And then, just looking over to the next page, those that require enhanced monitoring will

be, you know, we already are in consultation with those particular premises as Steve mentioned,

I think Sarah mentioned as well, and we'll be reviewing ongoing residence meetings and

supporting that, hopefully supporting something being set up akin to, I know when I mentioned

it last time, we didn't get a huge response, but I think we do need to look at how we continue

with the residents meetings and whatever format they're in, whether they're called the Residents

Association or whatever, that they're useful and that they are workable and that they're

meaningful and that we get some progress out of it, so that's really important.

And our comms teams will be looking at our, and have been dealing with that, and they

will continue to deal with that until we can go out there and get some more information,

obviously.

Because, for those of you that are in your premises and properties, back in your properties,

and I'm sure that in a lot of ways a great relief for lots of people, but then, like

Ray pointed out, his grass was really long.

and it needed cutting and it needed, you know, taking.

So I just wanted to point out, and this is almost,

you know, the normal day job for me,

is that we are gonna make sure that you've got,

for example, a collection of green waste,

which nobody else in the borough is getting anymore,

at this point in time,

but you'll be in that green waste collection on Monday.

I understand you that right, right?

That's what you've been told.

So we'll be doing things like that.

And as people need things, find things, doing that,

that's what type of support that we're gonna provide you.

And that's where, you know, when we say we're going to be with you, it's not a case of cordon's

gone, we're off.

It's not like that at all in any way, shape or form.

So just using that as an example.

Then you've got your, that on -site reassurances, which is what I was just saying really, and

then that in -home monitoring, which will take place over the next 12 months, and the wider

area will take place into 2025, and there'll be a long -term targeted monitoring conducted

around that borehole to address those unique requirements.

There'll be, from the fire, there'll be some home fire safety visits, I understand,

which will obviously be there as part of that reassurance, but also to show that we are

there and that we, across the board, that we are there for to provide you that support.

And then it's looking at 7 Clete Hill and the works associated with that and that does

relate into what Steve was saying and looking at that monitoring system and so on and so

forth.

And then obviously you've got things like the inquest to be held and then if I sort

of link into the action plan, you haven't got a copy of the action plan because I was

dealing with other things and I didn't get a chance to finish it off before saying to

get it printed for you all but I will get it onto the site.

Mainly because it's really nice to go through the actions that we've had over the last four

week action plan that we did have and they're virtually if not all green and being completed

which is really from my perspective as I've been away for a week was really quite a relief

because I didn't want to come today and some of those being red or something and not being

So it was quite good.

But then there are some of, there's still a lot of other things to look at and things

which have been either mentioned in that roadmap, but also things like the legal cell that's

been set up.

And I know that you have all asked about the legal applications to it.

And we've been looking at that and we've got a legal cell and to, I can't go into detail,

I won't because it would buoy it all to death if I did.

But it depends on legal elements.

It depends on how you look at it, where you are.

So in terms of, you know, carrying on with the works

at or not at number seven and so on, what that's,

how the monitoring happens, whether or not, you know,

we've got to wait for the inquest to be able

to see what comes out of that inquest

to help determine if there's any legal action and so on and so forth that could be taken.

All sorts of things that would absolutely...

It isn't just one element to do illegal.

There are so many different facets.

It's unbelievable.

But that cell is there.

And again, when individuals or people, and particularly it may be...

I know I sound like I'm flogging this, but a residence association wanted to know some

information about that, then we will hopefully be able to provide that information as and

when required.

But it is very difficult to just pin one point down.

I won't go through all of the elements, but there was a question, I know this was a question

for lots of people in relation to explaining the cost of determining the extent of the

gas.

under that stand Steve you brought in something for BGS is that correct?

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:37:57

No we're having a meeting tomorrow with the BGS to come up with a plan of action for the

monitoring and then they're going to cost it.

And then they'll cost it.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:38:08

Craig Austin - 0:38:11

And of course now you know you're going back into your properties, the majority of you

are going back into properties, we've got to review things, we've got to review things

like the security that's been on for the people that are back onto the golf course and there

were some other slight areas there.

We need to look at those sort of things in terms of what properties, accommodation, the

subsistence provided that we've been going up.

It really does come down to individual needs.

It's not a blanket kind of how we did approach it right from the start.

It has to be done in that way because people have got individual needs and we do need to

be able to do that properly.

And I think, you know, it's good to, it feels a good place now that we are starting to get

in there, but this is the point that I really want to get across.

This is, it's not the end by what's happening here by reducing cordons, it's not getting

the monetary equipment in, it's not that about that and getting you into your homes.

I think it was always, as I said, the last time I was at the meeting, is that that's

the first part of the roadmap and then it's looking at the other things which are much,

some of them are much longer term but generally we're still going to be on that case and then

we'll go through that as and when.

Is that right?

Yeah, thanks Craig.

So we're now going to open up to questions to the panel.

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:39:35

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:39:38

So rather than a question I think people might want to know where this test went this afternoon.

I agreed to for our house to be used.

I've got one of my monitors actually on the wall right against the floor, against the

front door.

The guys came in with a gas bottle.

They injected some gas towards the monitor.

Within seconds, the monitor reacted, blue lights, loads of noise.

You'd never sleep through it.

Before I could bend down and take the monitor off the wall, there was a Canadian voice talking

through the little box, telling me that I'd got a high level gas alert, asking me to be

calm and to go to the gathering point, which was Mosby Park entrance.

They made sure I knew where that was.

They asked me to take the monitor and leave the house and make my way to the monitoring

point, the reason being there's a GPS in the kit and they could always know then where

we were at risk.

We were told that fire service would meet us there and the intention I think is the

fire service then bring us back to the premise, check it out whether it's a false alarm, whether

we need to think or then give us some advice about getting out completely.

But it was so slick, it was so effective, I mean the thing went off and when the process

had just been down to pick it up there was this Canadian talking to me telling me in

a very calm manner exactly what to do, where to go, how to react.

It was great, absolutely fantastic.

It's made us feel that much more safe.

We couldn't be safer really.

If you've got a couple of them in your house and you make sure they're in the right places

and the right time, it's a brilliant, brilliant bit of kit.

Thank you Sarah, that's really brilliant.

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:41:24

Thank you for that feedback.

That's really helpful for your experience from today.

So thank you very much.

Ian.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:41:34

Thank you.

It is the case.

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:42:24

It is safe to return to your homes.

We've done... the team have done a massive amount of work over the past two weeks since I got involved in it.

And that's not to say they've done it because I've been involved, it's just that they've done a load of work beforehand as well.

And I would not be saying you could go back into those houses if I thought it wasn't safe.

and that is the same for the other people who are on the technical cell

because effectively it's the technical cell that have made that decision.

That was a unanimous decision.

Absolutely, if there was any doubt in my mind whatsoever that you were unsafe,

you wouldn't be going back there this evening.

I just

wanted to hear it in plain English

because a whole list of tests

passed,

cord and disappearing,

doesn't actually in a lot of people's

heads work out that that means it is

safe.

I just wanted to clarify that.

Thank you.

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:43:40

Thanks for asking that question

to get that clarification in.

Ray?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:43:45

Yes,

Thank you very much panel and Steve very comprehensive. I really appreciate that

That's really been helpful tonight from the whole team and particularly your contributions

I've got a couple of quick questions regarding what Steve said

The monitoring at the cap of the borehole obviously there are some readings and you explained about the

The gas coalescing and bubbling out and I understand that is there any way or system where you could have?

automated monitoring at the head of the well such that if there was stuff coming out and

The monitoring people weren't around that could be automatically fed back. That was the first question

Do we do one at a time? We'll do them all. I've got three or four minor questions

Yeah, thank you

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:44:28

There there are and there are ways that you can order we as a company we do a lot of what's called

It's called continuous monitoring

And we do it all the time when we're doing

investigations for new housing sites or around landfill sites where they've monitoring for it to make sure there's no

gas migration. So it is feasible and that is exactly what we're looking at in terms

of the long -term monitoring and how we can do that. And there are also the units that

we're going to use for the more comprehensive monitoring on those few properties that need

it. We actually use those on construction sites. So on a construction site where you

might have gas coming out of the ground they sit on a tripod and you actually

you have a series of them that just measure it in the air as well so you can

you can do that continuous automated monitoring in the ground and in the in

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:45:30

the air as well above it. Thank you Steve that makes a lot of sense. I think linked

to that I think if I understood correctly apologies for got this wrong you

mentioned that with the measures in place and with the monitors and houses

But that meant that the risk was you know low risk within houses with the monitors

I think you used the word moderate risk without the monitors

So I suppose we're I was just going to wonder as we go through maybe the 12 months. How will it transition?

What the assessment in 12 months time when maybe the monitors were coming out of the houses?

How does it how do we know it's low risk after that point when we don't have the monitors as that as the assurance?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:46:06

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:46:08

So the main reason that it's coming out as moderate risk and the reason you need the

monitors is because we don't fully understand at the moment what gas is left in the ground.

So when the hole was leaking there would have been leakage into the soil above it and that's

What is happening now in terms of the emissions around the borehole is that gas that went

into the surrounding ground coming back out again.

Now the evidence is that from the monitoring we've done it is showing us that that is likely

to be a very, very small area that is affected.

There is some uncertainty there and there are two ways we could have approached this

and they're the two normal ways of managing.

You always have uncertainty in risk assessments and this is what we do day in day out.

We could have said, right, we're going to manage that uncertainty by not letting you go back home until we fully understand it.

Or we can put mitigation measures in place that mean that if it, in the unlikely event that something does happen,

we've got contingencies in place so the alarms go off, as you've heard, they're really sensitive.

They're at a very low level.

Even when those alarms go off, you're not at immediate danger.

They're a warning.

You've got plenty of time to get out.

And we've took that second approach.

But to get you back to a position

where you don't need those alarms,

we've got to investigate the ground.

And we will have to drill boreholes into the ground.

And one of the things that everybody in the team

is aware of is that you've just had a borehole drilled

into the ground and you've had some catastrophic consequences.

So we've got to be aware that we've got to make sure that when we drill new boreholes

in the ground that we're doing that in a safe manner and it's not going to alarm everybody.

Now we can do that, it is a completely different situation to how that borehole was drilled.

And we're not going, the main thing is we're not going down to the same depths, nowhere

near that gas reservoir that's deep in the ground.

But we do need to understand what is happening in the shallow ground

to get you back in your houses without the alarms.

I can't get away from that fight.

There's no way I can work around that.

We need the information.

And then thank you, have as much for that.

One final question.

Very encouraging to hear what Steve said about the alarms and the response.

I certainly feel very comfortable going back to my home and I'm sure it's very unlikely that these monitors will ever be

Activated in anger so to speak. I just wondered is there any

Linkage between premises. So for example, if there was a alarm in one house

Obviously if there was a risk of explosion the houses approximate

Is there any linkage or would it be as emergency services are called out? They would be

knocking everyone else up for whatever better phrase or is there

Is there within the sophistication of the

The monitors that Sarah eloquently explained is there a means of alerting other neighbors automatically or is it will it be a manual?

situation

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:49:34

We'll work this button now in the end

Sarah Stevens - 0:49:39

Sorry, and so as it stands currently each of you individually only have access to the data that relates to your own monitors

But the LRF have access to all of the data for all of the monitors and so part of that

protocol that we tested this afternoon is that when that call that the battles received

in their house, the second part of that was then that the call went into the fire service,

so the call handler in Canada then called into the fire service and reload all of the

information that you gave on the call to them.

And then as part of that protocol that sits in the fire service control room, they have

access to that full level of data for all of the monitors.

So at the point that they, if that had been a real

activation today, when the fire service were in attendance

to meet yourselves in that muster point,

they would already know what the readings were

in the neighbouring properties, so they would be dispatching

based on the situational awareness that they have.

So they wouldn't just be going to your house

and then waiting 20 minutes later or half an hour

for a neighbouring property.

I think it was discussed around, and I think at an earlier meeting people asked about whether

they could see each other's data.

It's not impossible.

It's slightly complicated, and I hate to use the GDPR scenario, but it's not easy because

it means that you would all see each other's phone numbers and email addresses, emergency

contacts.

So there's not an easy way that you can see each other's alarms without seeing everything

that each other has.

It's not impossible, but for the moment, we've gone down that approach that you have complete access to the data within your home and

The resilience forum then have the oversight to see the data across the whole piece

But it could be reviewed

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:51:26

Thank You Sarah very much, I mean I imagine in the unlikely event of an alarm be modest

I guess neighbors we would all be banging on each other's doors

Anyway, I'm sure we wouldn't just wander up the street and leave someone else. I'm sure that would happen

I was just trying to understand how it worked, but thank you so much.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:51:43

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:51:49

Any other questions? Callie?

Just wanted to understand, firstly with the monitor, say if we're out or away on holiday, and the alarm says unfortunately it doesn't ever go off, how would we be contacted?

Because we wouldn't obviously hear it at home.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:52:16

So all of you that provided emergency contact details to us, there was

Sarah Stevens - 0:52:19

a second scenario

to the test that we did today.

So the example that we delivered was where the homeowners were in the house and so they

spoke directly through the device.

If we'd run that test and no one answered when the call handler came on the call, then

What they would do is they would move to those emergency contact phone numbers, so they would call you now

I completely appreciate that you could be abroad and not have any signal, but they would attempt to speak to you remotely to understand if

Anybody was in the home whether it was entirely empty or not

But regardless of either of those scenarios the fire service will still be notified

So I guess the answer is is if you were away

Nobody answered any of the emergency phone numbers the fire service would still be attending

They would still come to the scene and they were still investigate

I don't know whether I'm probably gonna let Rob take it from there because he probably knows better than I what they do when they

arrive

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:53:17

Yeah, good evening everyone Sarah's quite right

That we would attend and we saw it in action today

As did we see the dashboard in the fire service control if we did attend there'll be a proportionate approach taken

Some of the data we get it from Calgary in Canada from black line is the levels of gas

And what our fire officers do appreciate is there's a very low level

So we won't be using our universal big key of kicking your door in there would be some

less intrusive

investigation first now

We'll also be mobile mobilizing cadence as well

We've got more sensitive gas detection than the fire service now if push come to shove and really really needed to get in we would

Get in but that would be a last resort method

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:54:04

We are not sure when we will bring our mum home because we put her into a care home.

So if we are out for the day and the alarm was to go off, you would be able to go to

the house, be alerted, we have a key safe facility, we can give you the code and you

can access just to check.

Absolutely, we do that day in and day out, we use the key code.

If that's available on the tip sheet or we can get hold of it, we do that every day to

different properties where different gas alarms goes off across the county.

So is it connected just to the fire service, is it connected to police as well?

Yes, so part of that protocol we tested today goes through to the fire service, then the

fire service control room, there's a spatula appliance, then part of the protocol that

they have written down as well as going onto the dashboard, as well as checking those gas

They brief an officer like me from that point at that that duty officer who's on

365 24 -7

Different guys by the way, they will then go and they will phone their counterparts in the police

Which is again is a tried and tested method

We will notify the police and then that kicks in the police method through their oscar -1 lead control operator

five of us, obviously mum can't use it, six of us, but five of us need it but only two of us have it.

Sarah Stevens - 0:55:31

So I was going to ask this because I think when we set up all the accounts yesterday I think what

Blackline have done is that they've sent emails out to all of the first two contacts because

you're not the only person I'm aware of other households where additional contacts haven't

received their online accounts yet. I apologise I've been spending most of today getting ready

for this activity tomorrow in terms of the service ducks so I'm aware of yourself and a couple of

other people, but if anybody has not, thinks they've provided an email address to us and

they haven't received that detail yet, I'm going to send a bit of a follow on email out

to everybody after the weekend just to pick that up, because I think that a number of

home owners provided three, four, five email addresses. I'm very hopeful that there haven't

been any households that have not had any contact yet, but I don't think we're there

yet with all of those account details and I am aware of that.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:56:23

There's not an app for this, is there? And also, I'm not sure if we're actually using it properly.

I want to make sure there's some kind of training that we can get.

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:56:35

Sarah, do you want to pick that up? But, Callie, I think probably if there are more detailed information about how it's used and how it's working in your house,

can we take those as a one -to -one discussion? If that's all right?

Could I ask the gentleman?

Just one more.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:56:54

The cordon is going to be lifted.

So are we all going to get calls to say we can go home?

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:57:02

So from tonight's meeting, you've got that message.

And I'm assuming that you have your own, you've all been talking to each other.

We can send out a text message as a follow -up,

but that's the part of the reason we got tonight's meeting

is so that we can tell you in advance of the,

in advance of the cordon being taken off

from 10 o 'clock tomorrow morning.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:57:35

Yeah, my question's for the police

and regarding the police investigation.

Two or three meetings ago, I think we received a letter from your senior investigating officer

explaining what you were doing, talking about like contact would be made.

Now my question is about that contact because the reason I'm asking it is we did have contact

and interaction with the HSE prior to the explosion that I believe is relevant to a

police investigation.

Do we need to make the contact with the police or are we going to be contacted automatically?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:58:13

I'll have to take that away because I presume that means you haven't had any direct contact

at all. I mean clearly there's quite a few people that they will be speaking to. I can

get your full details afterwards and pass it on to the SIO but I should imagine they

are still just working through the volume of people they need to get to.

Gentlemen at the front.

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:58:32

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:58:34

I'm one of the unfortunate people who live on Cleat Hill at number three

and we have been advised today

quite sensibly that it is not advisable for us to return home

until the enhanced void monitoring is placed

into the property

Because there obviously is a minimal but still a risk

if we were in the property

My insurance company was very pleased to know there was a heavy left heavy police president presence around

the evacuated properties

If we don't get back into the middle of January

Will there be any security at all on the properties in Clete Hill which we've been evacuated from?

That's my first question and I'm sure my insurance company would like to know the answer because I have to speak to them fairly soon

my second question is

if there is a risk a

minimal risk

That would be such that we are revised as residents in certain properties in Clete Hill not to move in

There must be a risk of something

potentially in the unlikely

Circumstance I can't see it happening, but it must be there of another explosion

So how do the police reconcile?

reopening

Clete Hill and

taking the cordon away because their assessment must be

that the risk to public health and safety

for the general public is so low that it's safe to do so.

The two strands don't seem to my perhaps foolish mind

to actually gel very accurately.

Thank you, perhaps those questions will be answered.

Yes, Steve, please.

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:00:38

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:00:39

So there's a difference.

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:00:42

There's a risk to the properties because they're enclosed spaces.

And if you were living in there, that increases the risk of an ignition inside the property.

And it also increases, it can increase the risk of actually drawing gas out of the ground.

just by living in there, you can create a negative pressure inside the building.

That is different to gas coming out in the fresh air.

And what we've seen even on top of the borehole, although we're finding gas at the ground,

as soon as you lift the monitor 100mm, 4 inch off the ground,

then the levels are back at safe concentrations.

And that's just that's where the borehole is once you beyond that that there's no risk whatsoever

Emissions from the dam so that's why there is a difference

Does that does that explain

Like to have answered though is that disparity between

The advice for us to evacuate not to be go back to the property until we have the enhanced monitoring for our own safety

fully appreciate that and it cost a bomb

But I'm surprised

When the initial review was taken

They didn't think of the older properties which were built miles 1910 1920

traditional build most properties had voids under the floor and

And I would have thought if you had to have that in -house monitoring in that void

It should have been decided there and then and the kid ordered at the same time

Then perhaps we might have been in by Christmas as it is middle of January if we're lucky. I

Appreciate all the efforts from everybody going on, but it seems to me

That didn't quite happen

And I wasn't contacted at all about the structure of my house, which I renovated 35 years ago.

I knew exactly where the solid floors were and exactly where the voids were.

No one contacted me at all.

And I would have thought, given the fact that was a very individual property, unlike the two estates,

it seems to be an opportunity missed.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:03:12

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:03:14

Yes, please.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:03:17

You're absolutely right.

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:03:19

In an ideal world, it would have been picked up in the initial risk assessments, but there

was an awful lot of work being done in a very, very short space of time.

And what it does demonstrate is that the QA procedure was exactly what should have been

done, because that's when it was picked up during the QA procedure.

So, yeah, you are right, but that's why we did that QA.

The other thing is, one of my monitors, I've got three, two are on concrete floors, which is crazy,

and one is on a tiled floor over a void.

And the logical thing would have been, if someone had looked at it properly, to put

one over the void, on the boards. I've suggested this, I've been told not to

shift it myself, but someone ought to have a quick look, tomorrow, and say, right, it's

more sensible in the short term to relocate that monitor. I know these monitors cost a

But when you got two in and one is definitely in the wrong place because they didn't check

Thank you. I'm not moaning. I do appreciate all the work that's gone in and the hard work

I know how slim the core team on the authority is how hard they've all been working and I'm fairly appreciative of that

And I'm very appreciative of all the support we've had from better borough council

but I like the police comment on

the safety of reopening the road

Because if so facto there's still that disparity if it's not safe for us to in the property

There must be a slim chance

of an explosion

So the roads we know so it's deemed safe enough for the road to open but not safe enough for us to be in the property

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:05:22

So Craig would you just like to pick up on that the you want to comment and then I think

Craig Austin - 1:05:27

I think it's not a police response

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:05:29

I just think I'm gonna hand that over to Jim to talk about on that but from a fire service

Perspective on the cordon, but we still got the issue to deal with that you asked about security overall

So Craig you want to comment then Jim and then Catherine on the security, please?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:05:48

Okay, so just about getting somebody out to have a look at your

Craig Austin - 1:05:51

particular issues I think we do need to get somebody out and have a look at it

and see what we can do you're right to raise these points and that have the

technical experts and so on to be able to help provide that you know expertise

of where those monitors should be etc etc so we will make sure that somebody

comes out and do that you know in contact you I'm not sure why you weren't

contacted about you thought I think there were I know that officers did try

to contact me I'm not sure why that didn't happen obviously it should have happened but

if you could just make sure that we've got the right details for you I'm hoping we have

but let's just make sure we have so we don't again try and contact you and we don't succeed

I think it's really important.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:06:38

Evening.

Yeah so as Steve has already mentioned that there is a number of control measures that's

now been applied that kind of phased approach to reducing risk over and over.

We're now at the point of balancing risk against benefit and the benefit of returning you against

a risk that's the residual risk that's left.

Those control measures that we've got in place in regards to the way that we're monitoring

in home, the constant monitoring in ground, is going to reduce the likelihood of any gas

movement that's going to be undetected. The likelihood of it going, of that exploding,

making an explosion is going to be very small, but the fact that if you're constantly inhabiting

your home, if somebody goes past the house and there is an explosion, the remote chance

of that happening is so low, but the fact that if you lived in your house, it increases

that likelihood of harm to you, is one that we cannot at the moment compensate.

So it's just the likelihood rather than, you know, of somebody going past, rather than

you living in your home the whole time.

So with the additional control measures, we're able to say it's a very, very low risk to

passes by but for somebody that's going to inhabit that home 24 -7 that increases

the risk to the moderate and that's why the advice is that you don't return to

your home. Hopefully that gives you an answer to your question.

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:08:22

And Catherine can you pick up on the security issue thank you. Yes of course and I

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:08:25

didn't wish you to think that I was ignoring the police question there but

it was more considered an approach with the other agencies so that was why it's

better that parlours that. In terms of security yes certainly over the weekend

We are minded that some properties won't be

Will still not be occupied. So that's why we're very slowly decreasing

the officers there

And then going on from there and I'll be putting a plan in place it hasn't been completed yet just to maintain

Some patrols that we have in the weeks going on almost do excuse me

And that be taken on by my computer community team, so yes, we will be mindful of that and keeping those patrols in the area

Craig Austin - 1:09:06

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:09:09

Are there any more questions?

Ben?

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:09:12

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:09:16

Good evening and thank you for all you've shared tonight and all that you've been doing

over the several weeks prior to tonight.

I feel it's very positive of what's been coming out from tonight and the information

you shared.

I just wanted a couple of things to be clarified with them.

It's really good to hear that you've, Steve, that you've turned around and said that, you know, it's safe to return.

You know, they're the words that I've listened and heard and I think that's what I've gathered and said.

And I just wanted to double check that within the risk assessment and the report, is there an explanation that you've actually written that to say that it's safe for us to return?

Is there like a paragraph you might have put at the end before you signed it and said, yeah, we think it's safe to go home?

There is a statement though, sorry I'll turn it off.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:10:03

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:10:05

Yeah, I'll have to double check because we have been working on it all today.

There have been some amendments to it, other people have read it.

But I'm fairly certain that it is in there.

I'm happy to sit through with you and go through them.

It does summarise that, yes, it is safe for residents to return to their homes because

of these reasons.

That's in the individual risk assessment.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:10:48

It's just in simple English, I doubt it's safe to return home, yeah?

I'm paraphrasing here, but yes, it is in simple English.

Thank you very much.

Just on that then, so I take it that with the risk assessments and the report that the

signatures will be on there or backing it would be your company, Steve, and your backing

as well as the borough council and the other agencies that have been involved in the whole

is it a stacked group that that would all be signed and said

and you'd be all backing it.

So it's like you've all kind of recommended it

and it's got your names against that.

Would that be happening on those reports

and risk assessments please?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:11:28

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:11:30

So yeah, so Rob's right on the individual risk assessment.

So I was thinking about it because what's happened

is that I've written an overarching risk assessment

that then makes the individual risk assessments for each house

a lot simpler. Hopefully that will help you understand it better.

So the individual risk assessments, Rob's right, they all have a statement, it is safe.

I was thinking about my overarching report. But the individual risk assessments haven't

got names on them and they're not signed. The overarching risk assessment that I've

got my signature on it.

Thank you.

And I take it that we'll be able to get a copy of that actual report and everything

as we move forward.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:12:21

Yeah, it's going to be in the pack that you're getting.

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:12:23

You need it.

You need that report because it feeds into the individual risk assessment if you want

to read back and see what the basis is.

having sort of led on the risk assessments,

whilst it doesn't have the names,

it does include the agencies that have contributed to it.

So that, and they're the standing members of the tech cell.

So anyone from the coal authority, BGS, HSE,

fire service, police, Bedsborough council, and so on.

Thank you.

The reason is just known out from my own personal,

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:13:02

be able to help with the returning of my son

to come and stay with me,

as well as the next bit is just with all this information being shared with the land registry.

So if I want to sell my house, they'd be able to get all this information to prove that it's safe to be there.

Is that what the idea is that you're moving forward is going to be shared with that part, please?

Craig, can you pick up on that, please?

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:13:26

Craig Austin - 1:13:29

Yeah, so that's part of the legal sell that we're talking about and getting that.

It's not quite as simple as you'd hope, but yes, we are looking at that in terms of that

and the environment survey and all that sort of stuff.

It is being done.

That's the work that's going on.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:13:49

And with that, with the continuing monitoring of data, you would be seeing that you'd be

sharing that with the land registry of everything over the next coming year and all that information.

Just say if I want to sell my house in a year, in two years, that we've got that back in,

that it is completely safe and all that data would be shared.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:14:07

I would have thought that that data then assesses the risk and then that risk would then inform

Craig Austin - 1:14:11

the, you know, rather than have, you won't, I don't think, I just want to be clear, I

don't believe all that data will be just, you know, put in there.

But it, but the outcomes of that, it changed, I would say, I would suggest, then that would

I would it would be applicable

Okay, thank you my final one sorry everyone just the last thing is with the cordon is it being lifted or is it shrinking and

If it's shrinking what would be the size or is it just completely going please?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:14:44

It will be going bar the offices at number seven it will go

I'm just saying that the officers will remain there. So you'll still see the visible presence, but it won't be the corner per se

Thank you very much, Asul.

Thank you.

Aloha.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:14:59

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:15:01

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:15:02

Aloha.

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:15:32

So, as I said, we're having a meeting tomorrow morning because we're still working through

this.

But what we need to, the key things that we need to understand are where, at what level

did the gas leak into the surrounding ground?

Now we've got a geological model, but we need to prove that geological model.

So you can make a good sort of start to understand what you think is likely to be happening in the ground.

And we've got that, but now we need to drill the holes to prove it.

So the first thing is we need to understand the ground itself, what the different layers are in the ground, where that gas has accumulated.

And then we need to understand how far away from the borehole it's gone.

And we should see, what we will do is install gas monitoring wells into the layer where

we think the gas is.

And then we measure it, we put the continuous monitors on and we can see how it responds

to that and we can see whether we're finding a decrease in concentration as we move away

from the borehole.

The other thing that's really important for the risk assessment is there's a layer of clay at the surface

and that clay, that is probably why the gas moved a long way from the borehole

because it keeps it in the ground and it can't come up to the surface easily.

So if it's in a confined sandy layer or a gravely layer or a rock that's porous that allows the gas to go through it,

If that was close to the surface gas always takes the easiest route

So if you were trying to push it through the ground close to the surface

It just forces its way up if there's nothing to stop it

But if you've got a thick layer of clay like you've got underneath your houses

It will it will just keep pushing it and it will go much further. So we need to understand how thick that clay is

Because again that is quite a significant part of the risk assessment

Because if you've got five metres of clay underneath the house, that will stop gas coming up unless there's a penetration through it.

And we use clay in landfill sites to keep gas in landfills.

And if we were building a landfill, we'd only use a metre thick layer of clay to stop the gas moving.

Now the likelihood is, again we've got to prove this, but the likelihood is you've got at least five metres, five or six metres of clay between you and the layer where that gas migration occurred.

So they're the kind of things that we're thinking about and we've got to consider and that's what we've got to prove.

It's that uncertainty which is why you've got the gas monitors in again.

And once we can prove that that is the case, we'll be in a far, far better position.

Thank you for that. And I know you haven't decided anything or agreed anything yet,

but that's sort of a likely scenario. How many holes? Where would they be?

What sort of time frames and what would satisfy you that everything is okay and the monitors can come out?

so at the moment

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:18:53

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:18:55

And I've written this you see this it's actually written in the report that you get the overarching risk assessment report

So we need one deep relatively deep borehole. So we do need one borehole near to the

existing borehole

that goes down between 30 and 50 meters.

But that's still well above the original gas reservoir.

That is the difficult one to drill,

because we've got to use that heavy mud and everything.

We've got to make sure that everything stays under control this time,

and put diverters on the top of it,

so if in the unlikely event it does hit gas,

we don't lose control of the hull.

And that's all standard stuff that they do

when they're drilling oil wells and gas wells.

And then what we need to then do is drill a series of holes about five meters away from the borehole in a circumference.

So we'll drill four holes that we put monitoring wells into at that distance.

And we'll do that at shallow depth and at depth.

So we'll do it at five meters.

What will happen is we'll drill the holes and there'll be a geologist on site

and they're logging the holes, they're describing the soils that are coming out

and you adjust what you're doing on site in response to what you see.

But for argument's sake it'll be around about 5 metres, around about 15 metres

and then beyond that towards Wagstaff Close

We need to... This depends on discussions.

It might be four, it could be two.

15 meter deep wells, so that we can understand what's happening

in terms of how far did the gas migrate and how far has it retreated.

But as I said, to be honest, when you design insight investigations like this,

It is a constant battle between the disturbance that you're going to cause, how much it's going to cost,

and the information that you want.

If it were just me and I had an unlimited budget, we'd be drilling holes everywhere.

And if it didn't disturb everybody, you'd drill holes everywhere.

But you can't do that.

And that's why we're having that meeting tomorrow morning,

so that we can thrash out what is a reasonable approach to this long term thing.

There are three people in that meeting, there's myself, the BGS and HSE.

We've all got a lot of experience of doing this.

So you've got three minds working at this and that's what we need to do to get the best solution for you.

It's no good just me having my ideas. We've got to discuss it and we've got to agree it.

So what sort of time scales are we looking at and would the work be undertaken by you and your team?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:22:03

When I don't press the button that's become known as doing a Wilson.

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:22:05

So I can't comment on the time scales because, and the reason, I'm not fudging the question

And I'm sure that there are other people who can explain this.

There are legal issues.

And to be honest, I'll put my cards on the table here.

When I first got involved in this two weeks ago,

I was like, right, yeah, let's get in there, do some boreholes, no problem.

But there are lots of difficulties in doing that, legal difficulties and things.

So I can't comment on that.

But it would be you carrying it out.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:22:45

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:22:48

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:22:50

So yeah again it I can't I can't sort of get myself a job here

Yeah

The

It will it will probably it won't it wouldn't be our company that are drilling the holes but

I'm sure that we can be overviewing it and supervising it

But I think you're gonna be just aren't you to get the quirk?

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:23:19

Yes, because BGS have been involved in the site, but obviously we want to have a scope

of the work, first of all, then procure the best people to do it, and I think probably

that oversight piece.

So they are a part of the medium, what do we do after, and as Steve has outlined, the

mitigation that we've got in place is to allow you to return to home with monitors in place.

So this is part of getting us ready for not having monitors and understanding the position

in a bit more detail.

So just to clarify then, the monitors will stay in place until this work has been carried

out and you're satisfied.

But further question on that, what does satisfied look like?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:24:13

So satisfied is we remove that uncertainty.

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:24:15

It is those boreholes and that monitoring.

Because without it I can't say that you are safe without those gas monitors in your house.

There is a...

It's only... I think it is only...

Well, it is only a very slight risk, but nonetheless

it is still a risk that is not acceptable.

So absolutely that information is needed to allow you to remove those monitors.

And then just to clarify, the monitoring that's in place,

so it's been described in the presentation,

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:24:54

which is around MRSL being still available and on site,

BGS looking at things twice a week,

And then as Steve described earlier about how we can automate that and that is all part

of that monitoring and looking at what that looks like as well.

In terms of the monitors in your house, yes, they stay there until we know what the situation is

and for the monitors that you have, the contract that we've got at the moment is for 12 months.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:25:33

Thank you.

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:26:13

So, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

Craig probably needs to, well he does need to answer that question because I'm providing

technical advice.

Yeah, so I can't answer the legal questions.

I don't know about it.

Thank you Steve.

Craig Austin - 1:26:29

So it's quite clearly something that we need to address

With the property

Owners as it were I don't think I'd like to comment more because you know today was mr

Swells funeral and I don't get right to talk about that at this point in time

But we will be and we already have had contact as a borough council

with the executor of Mr. I believe is the executor of Mr. Swales estate.

And we just need to discuss those points with them obviously subject to the information that's being provided by Steve.

I just don't think it's appropriate today in particular to discuss any time frames because I think we just need to be able to discuss that with the family of the bereaved.

Are there any more questions?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:27:22

Ian?

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:27:25

It's possibly related but not really related to that and I notice on the medium long -term

timelines you've got seven detail works to be done.

I hope you're aware, but today, Jackson's demolition went on site with what looked like

diggers, which might have caused a few people a bit of concern who were walking or driving

past.

I'm hoping you're aware about that, and my question is fundamentally, is the collective,

and I will call it the collective again, is the collective okay with that?

We've heard that there's little gas, is there any risk of disturbance to the ground levels, increasing the flow of gas,

should residents have any concerns that they see works going on site,

and can we expect those works to complete, given what you just said about estates and things like that?

Steve, can you pick that up?

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:28:28

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:28:32

Yeah, so we are aware of that and it's part of the ongoing investigations into what has happened.

There aren't any excavations into the ground, what they will be doing,

because they're going to do some investigations after Christmas that are called geophysics.

You've probably seen it on these archaeological programs.

They've got a radar that penetrates into the ground, but it's like a wheelbarrow

So you need a clean site to be able to use it

And so they're clearing the site

But also they will have to scrape because there's quite a lot of muddy ground wet muddy ground

So there's some the the drilling mud that they used when they were when they were sealing up the hole

When you finished you end up with this gray slimy stuff on the floor

and they can't do that survey when that's in, so they'll be scraping, you know,

it's literally just dragging it across and scraping that mud out of the way, it's not an excavation.

And it will be safe, yeah.

That's exactly what they were doing this morning.

But, you know, it would have been nice to know that that was ahead of time,

A, it was going to happen and B, it was perfectly safe.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:29:56

Yeah, we'll take that into account.

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:29:58

So I think that's probably one of the questions about ongoing communication of sharing when

things are happening and just making everyone aware of that.

Particularly around the site and any works that are going on because conscious of what

Craig says, I think we all understand what he said and accept that.

I was not expecting to see anybody on site doing any work before Christmas, let's put

it that way.

Yeah, thanks Ian. Callie?

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:30:25

Just a question for Jim, I don't know if he's going to be able to answer this, because it's probably still part of the investigation.

So obviously the gas got into the house, probably through the connected drainage from the art building at the back.

Is that drainage going to be disconnected? Is it going to stay there? I'm just a bit worried about that.

Is that drainage going to be disconnected?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:30:52

The home you mean? So it's not a drainage, it's bent ventilation pipes that run from back to front, is that what you mean?

Yeah, point to after, so is that what you want?

Yeah, so that part of the investigation of the clearing of the ground and the radar, that's all part and parcel of both the criminal and fire investigation

as to the possible route for gas to have taken.

So over time all of that will be removed probably,

but it will depend upon the level of evidence

that the coroner is going to need to look at the level of evidence

to be able to prove how the explosion happened.

So at the moment it's going to remain as it is.

So eventually when everything is classed as satisfactory, and if they ever do building

works again, will the drainage facilities for gas electric water be taken from its own,

it won't be taken from Magsos, Glenrose, from the other Calit Hill pipes just because

of the borehole of gas, will it be independent on its own?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:32:07

Whatever works now needs to be done, it will be done to ensure safety of the residents.

I think there's quite a number of junctions that can go down at the moment, but ultimately

the end result will be about public safety. So whatever necessary actions need to do to

ensure that, then that's what will happen.

The monitors, Isabel's monitors, have been put in a place they shouldn't be put in possibly.

Is everybody else's monitors in our homes in the right places?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:32:45

Sarah Stevens - 1:32:48

So the properties with the monitors in were all put in by Rockwell Safety.

I am going to email them to ask the question that was raised by the residents of number

three.

They weren't put in place by council officers were put in place by the provider that and it was based on those surveys

So I'm happy to talk to you separately

but my understanding is that the positioning in your house was done as per their review of the survey and

I don't believe that there's any differential in terms of the flooring within your property. I think that

There is there is some there are some unusual

design features in some of the properties in Cleat Hill because they are older and they've had you know

additions, but my belief is that your property has one consistent flooring across the piece

and so the question that's been raised wouldn't apply but I'm happy to get it checked if you want me to raise the question when

I email Rockwell.

It's just that all the monitors are on the ground level. Is that how they're meant to be in everybody's properties?

Yes, so everybody's homes, when you entered your homes, you should have found them positioned

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:33:51

on the floor.

Sarah Stevens - 1:33:53

And I think when I sent the email out and the advice note, it said that if you wanted

to fix them on a bracket, which some people have done, it should be done at that low level.

So yes, absolutely they should be at floor level.

I think the question that was asked was around the difference in flooring and whether the

monitor should be repositioned onto the wooden floors as opposed to the solid concrete floors.

But yeah, everybody's monitors should be at a low level and the recommendation is they should stay at that level

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:34:23

Thank you, are there any further questions Ben

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:34:25

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:34:28

Yeah, thank you just for the conversations that happen on since my last question was just with the work that's going to be undertaken

Hopefully by yourself Steve that you've mentioned going forward just will we get clarification the council right to us to tell us when it's going to

when you might start.

And you mentioned about the legal side of it.

It's just as I sit here with the situation that came about with the people who,

the contractors who brought down originally,

they became a problem in July, which could have ended with us being evacuated,

and then subsequently from that, then there was the situation that's come about,

and obviously we have all been evacuated.

But, you know, it's that, you know, obviously you're going to do your best and it's going

to be work, you're going to do the work as what you best possibly can.

But it's just letting us know so that work is going on.

Just be aware, because there was nothing done before and the legal side of it, the guy,

you know, sadly Paul has lost his life, who did it, you know, there was no consultation,

There was no planning, there was no information shared with us local residents that this was

going on in his back garden that you're saying that there's legal things that you've got

to go through.

There didn't seem to be too much on when that all started for him.

So I'm just kind of a bit conscious how it's going to take longer over this year to happen

as well as obviously us being aware that this is going to take place please.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:35:59

Craig Austin - 1:36:02

Yeah, I think that Laura raised it earlier, we look at the way that we communicate things.

I don't think it's appropriate to go into the detail about, you know, the legal side

of it to do that, but I take on board then, I do take on board your points about, you

know, needing to improve on that communication and what we can share from, because there

are legal elements in relation to what we can say at this point in time or any point

time but where we can we will do and we'll look the comms team will look at

that in particular working with the officers to make sure that we get

improved communication I do think at the end of the day some of the things that

you mentioned will come out in the inquest some of those things will come

out there anyway so which you know is beyond what we were going to get in the

We will improve that communication.

Mayor Tom, do you want to come in?

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:36:58

Well, I gave the commitment at the start of the meeting.

Mayor Tom Wootton - 1:37:01

We were here for you and I've made that commitment every single meeting that we've had.

Just because you're going back and all that sort of stuff and it's not going to be finished,

we're going to try and keep up communications.

The council motion that went through this council was that we would either form some

sort of residence group, but we would keep in contact with you and keep information flowing.

That is up to us to do.

And it's a council motion.

We've got to do that.

So we will do our best to keep you informed and however we do it.

And I'll leave that in the good, you know, for the feedback, whether it's done by email

or text, all that sort of stuff, or by WhatsApp.

We have a commitment that we will keep this going

as long as it takes.

That is what I said at the start of the meeting

and I have said it at every single meeting.

Whether we have other meetings

but you have that commitment

from me politically

that this is not going to be left alone.

You are my residence.

This is going to carry on

and we have to see it to the finish.

OK, Rob, would you like to talk about

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:38:07

the home safety visits please?

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:38:13

Thanks, Laura, I won't take much of your time, but when

Craig did his run down through the timeline, he

mentioned the home fire safety visit, again the home

fire safety product is a national product that some of

you may have experienced already, it's something that

fire service offers that looks at home factors,

behaviour factors and personal factors.

It's a person -centred visit.

Again, whilst it's not a must and by no means it

hinges the risk assessment, it's something that we are

advocating and it's something the fire service

are ready, willing and able to offer.

It's free of charge and whilst it predominantly

focuses on home fire safety, what it also does is a more

the fire is not a holistic approach and signpost you to

any other support automatically or it might give you that

further reassurance through what the firefights can tell you

about. They can tell you about gas, fire, et cetera, and escape

routes. So I do recommend through Sarah and Sarah we'll be

reaching out to you in the next couple of days and the

opportunity for one of those visits is available to every

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:39:24

We've got a couple of questions online if I do those.

So I think this is probably just to confirm that Catherine, can we now return home without

the video recording of us?

So from 10 o 'clock tomorrow morning there won't be the requirement for the form or the

video.

So Clete Hill will be open.

The only element will be not being able to access the actual site.

You can go about your business in a normal way.

The second question is if people realise that the information isn't quite right for their monitors and setting up information, how do they update it?

So Sarah please.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:40:33

Okay, so I think as I mentioned before, my aim is to send a bit of a follow -up email

Sarah Stevens - 1:40:36

to everybody after we've completed this exercise on Friday and Saturday.

I am mindful that I just need to check in in terms of whether we've got everyone's contact

details right, whether people have been able to log on to the portal and if people have

got questions about anything that was in that sort of basic, I guess I'd call it a user

guide.

It was something that we put together in partnership with Rockwell.

I think generally a lot of the work they do is in the industrial commercial space, so

I'm mindful that some of the language reviews might not make sense, you might have further

questions.

So I'm hoping that if there are any follow -on questions around the monitors, I can pick

those up when I send that out.

I think you all probably have my email address anyway, so if there's a burning question you

want to ask, please do ask it.

You don't have to wait for me to contact you.

But if I can just say that I am planning to do a bit of a follow -on email to just check in with everybody

I'm hoping that the majority of those questions I can pick up collectively in that in that sort of one exercise

but as I say, you know, if there's something that you want to know or you feel

You're not comfortable about in terms of what what you have in your home. Please do just email me and we'll

Forward them on to the experts and get the answers for you

Thank you lady over there

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:41:51

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:41:56

And just to follow up on what Steve was saying about the next process about the

Ballholes and that are going to be drilled

Will the residents obviously we be notified but will we be allowed to stay in situ?

Is that?

Considering the work that's going to be done

Steve, do you want to pick up on that?

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:42:17

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:42:21

Yeah, what we will do will not compromise your safety in any way at all.

And what I would say is that that is a prime consideration in what we're thinking about doing.

And because of what has happened, actually everything we're doing on this site has extra health and safety precautions.

because of the sensitivities. But it will be, the way we're going to drill the holes, as I said, it's controlled,

and the shower holes, the 5 metres and the 15 metre deep holes that I was talking about,

we will find gas in those, but it won't be under pressure.

And every day of the week we're drilling holes in materials like that.

It's like drilling in a landfill. People routinely drill into a landfill site that contains methane.

You take the appropriate precautions and you do it safely.

There will be added precautions on this site that we wouldn't normally take on a site like this.

Thanks Steve.

Ian?

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:43:35

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:43:40

Thank you.

to the emergency services and to all the experts who have come in for the leadership commitment

and expertise you've shown throughout,

which is enabling us to be on the cusp of returning.

So, you know, I've raised lots of questions.

I've made things potentially difficult

with different points via emails as well.

It would be childish of me not to kind of acknowledge

and place on record my thanks for all of the efforts

you've taken so far, so thank you.

That's it.

Thank you for that Ian.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:45:16

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:45:18

We feel that this is an important milestone for you to be, I would say the majority of

you to be able to return home.

And so thank you for that acknowledgement.

But I think we've also known that there is more work to do.

And I think probably the thing that we would like to explore with you is about how we continue to talk to you about all of those next things,

about what happens, how we do that, how we do that in a clear way.

So thinking about that.

So there's still a lot more work to do.

And so we think that that's really, really important.

But it does feel like this is a different meeting,

because we are able to answer the question

that the vast majority of you have been asking for eight

weeks.

But this is kind of one part for us,

and then it moves into the next stages.

And I think one of the things that we've

talked about before, we are still engaging with the insurance industry.

And I know many of you have had queries around that.

The insurance industry is saying to us that if we give them specific examples, they will

look into it.

But I need those examples to come in so that we can follow up on that.

We've talked about some of the work around land charges.

That's more work for us to do.

and also about the work that Steve has described around the monitoring in the borehole.

So still a lot more to do, but we are there to do that.

Mayor Tom's talked about some of the motion at full council, which I think you were aware of,

but that got unanimous support.

That triggered me as the chief exec having to write quite a lot of letters to quite a lot of people,

and I'm hoping that we will start getting responses on some of those.

That's the reason I know that the insurance industry are saying we want some specific examples.

And actually, someone has come back to me and I've already been able to give them one example

that I need them to look into.

And as Craig set out, we need to work with you on that medium to longer term plan roadmap

So that we are continuing on getting what Steve has given you is the aspiration that

you don't have to have the additional monitoring in your homes and that's what full return

to normal looks like.

Ray.

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:48:00

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:48:02

My final comment was just a very small point and that is to say obviously echoing what

Ian said absolutely very, very grateful for the hard work and commitment from everybody

And I'm sure we all feel absolutely relieved to be going back to our houses

I'm very mindful of the significant financial burden that this has been on the council and all the support you've given us

How would you like us to communicate so that you can reduce your hotel burden costs and all those things like if I'm going back home

Tomorrow or whatever and the hotels booked for the next x days. How can we help mitigate costs? Who do we speak to?

Just say we're going back home

I'm gonna hand over to Craig and

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:48:38

Sarah Sarah and Heather yes I think we will take a lead on that obviously not

Craig Austin - 1:48:45

because we tried to reduce our cost as such but we you know we've got the

people and the communication that we're doing there and working with the

residents and it comes down to when I said about the subsistence that we've

been providing now it will it will be dependent on the actual need it was

Anyway, but it's it's it definitely will be more focused on that

Depending on how people are where they are because there are some people that are still going to need some support

And we need to make sure that you've got that support was because you're not so fortunate to be able to go back to your

Properties we need to remember that there's some people that we've got to continue to support in that way

but I

Thank you for what the way that you approach that but yeah, we will take the lead from that for our housing and and

resilience thing.

Thanks for that, Ray.

Sarah Stevens - 1:49:41

I think you are all quite aware of the generic inbox that we have set up, it is communities

inbox.

If you could notify us through that means and then the appropriate services can share

that information.

So when you do vacate your temporary accommodation, if you could let us know and then we can pick

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:50:12

and what a long period of time we've stayed in theirdr

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:50:14

As to how long it took for those full homes to return to the homes, again, that they would

be a difficult time to have a market Browser where I was going to late fall, being able

So we can put off keeping our ear and I out as well as the safety

Do you want to pick up on that

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:50:34

Sarah's the facts. Yeah

So it's clear from the conversations we've had that there are some

Sarah Stevens - 1:50:42

homes that aren't able to go back

I don't think it's for us to share that I am conscious that you are in

residents WhatsApp groups and I think that that might be an easier way for you to share

that privately but I don't think it would be appropriate for us to sort of highlight

that in a public meeting.

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:51:09

Thanks Sarah. If there aren't any final questions, I'd just like to thank you for coming tonight

and then I'll hand over to Mayor Tom.

One of the things though, it would be really helpful

is to have your thoughts about how you want us

to work with you ongoing as a group

and communicate with you as a group

so that we could think about getting that right

for the next stages.

So there'll be some things

where we might just be telling you we know something is happening,

or we might be telling you about other things,

where is it helpful for us to say,

we've written to this minister and we've got a reply.

What kind of things would you like to know?

And we will think about, a bit like we did last time,

we did a phone round,

we'll think about how we can ask you some of those questions

to give us a bit more of an idea

about what you'd like to talk about because I know when Craig and I and I've also been

back to St. Mark's, what was helpful when we were having those individual conversations

was we could probably tell you things that you know, what are you doing?

So we had some conversations.

So we've got to think about how we can continue with that.

And but it would help you to understand what that looks like for you moving moving forward

But you could come back to us around around that

Okay, mr. Mayor indeed. Thank you chief

To echo the Chiefs point in this chamber

Mayor Tom Wootton - 1:52:54

Councilor Gribbles motion was that we got to keep in contact with you. We have that responsibility

So how we do that, please do tell us I'd feel at this moment, you know

We ought to be cheering and all the rest of it,

but it doesn't feel like that.

Just feels the end of a long journey.

Thank you very much for your thanks.

You know, that is heartfelt,

because I do know how many hours the team's been putting in

and what they've been doing and all that sort of stuff.

But most of all,

I just wanna thank you for being so blooming patient with us

and such a good group of residents,

because you were cast out with no warning

and you were so stoic and so, you know, so patient with us

because it was the weekend and all the rest of it

and it took us a while to get into motion.

And I just thank you so much for this, you know,

for working with us and helping us and not being difficult

and just listening and being so very English in how we responded.

So thank you very much from the bottom of my heart

because, you know, hopefully we're in the endgame now

and you have been so stoic and well behaved

and I am so thankful for everything

and all the emergency services and everybody working together.

So hopefully this is the end game and we can keep in contact.

But thank you very much for what you said.

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:54:21

It is probably also a good point to say that we hope you enjoy being back in your homes

and wish you the best for celebrations

and for those that aren't able to go home, that you'll be looking forward to that as

soon as we can get the mitigation and the monitoring in place that's right for your

property.

So thank you everybody.

Cleat Hill Update Presentation, opens in new tab

Mayor Tom Wootton

Conservative Party

Public Meeting - Cleat Hill - Thursday 12 December 2024, 6:45pm - Bedford Borough Council streaming

Public Meeting - Cleat HillThursday, 12th December 2024 at 6:45pm

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Votes

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:02:18

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:02:44

Jim Davies, Beds Fire - 0:02:52

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:03:25

Jim Davies, Beds Fire - 0:23:02

Sarah Stevens - 0:24:21

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:24:40

Craig Austin - 0:24:51

Jim Davies, Beds Fire - 0:26:25

Sarah Stevens - 0:26:28

Craig Austin - 0:27:59

Jim Davies, Beds Fire - 0:29:20

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:29:23

Jim Davies, Beds Fire - 0:29:44

Craig Austin - 0:29:47

Jim Davies, Beds Fire - 0:30:05

Craig Austin - 0:30:08

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:37:57

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:38:08

Craig Austin - 0:38:11

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:39:35

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:39:38

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:41:24

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:41:34

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:42:24

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:43:40

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:43:45

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:44:28

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:45:30

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:46:06

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:46:08

Steve Wilson EPG - 0:49:34

Sarah Stevens - 0:49:39

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:51:26

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:51:43

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:51:49

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:52:16

Sarah Stevens - 0:52:19

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:53:17

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:54:04

Sarah Stevens - 0:55:31

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:56:23

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:56:35

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:56:54

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:57:02

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:57:35

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:58:13

Laura Church Chief Executive - 0:58:32

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 0:58:34

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:00:38

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:00:39

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:00:42

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:03:12

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:03:14

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:03:17

Steve Wilson EPG - 1:03:19

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:05:22

Craig Austin - 1:05:27

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:05:29

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:05:48

Craig Austin - 1:05:51

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:06:38

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:08:22

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:08:25

Craig Austin - 1:09:06

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:09:09

Laura Church Chief Executive - 1:09:12

Jim Davies, Beds Fire/ Katherine Rivers Beds Police - 1:09:16

Public Meeting - Cleat Hill
Thursday, 12th December 2024 at 6:45pm